Baden-Baden or Turin?

Both are inland, so neither works for a beach trip. The swimming differs: Baden-Baden has flooded gravel pits on the Rhine plain and outdoor pools, while Turin has small lakes such as Avigliana and Viverone close by, with Lago Maggiore and the Ligurian Riviera as longer days out. Baden-Baden's real water is thermal, and that is for soaking rather than swimming.

Baden-Baden eats pleasantly rather than memorably. Flammkuchen, Black Forest ham and cherry gateau carry French touches from across the Rhine, and the best evenings are spent in the Riesling and Pinot Noir taverns of Neuweier and Varnhalt. The small centre, though, is mostly hotel dining and cake cafés.

Turin is one of the reasons to visit Italy's north-west. It is the home of vermouth, gianduja and the aperitivo, it serves vitello tonnato, tajarin and bollito misto with Barolo and Barbaresco alongside, and Porta Palazzo market makes cheap grazing easy. A food-led trip has far more to go on here.

Baden-Baden's appeal is the town itself: a Great Spa Town of Europe, with the Kurhaus, the Trinkhalle colonnade and hillside villas, plus the Museum Frieder Burda and the house where Brahms spent his summers. It is charming and quickly seen.

Turin has the depth of a former royal capital. The Museo Egizio alone justifies the journey, and the Royal Palace, Palazzo Madama, the Shroud cathedral, the Reggia di Venaria and the Mole's cinema museum keep a curious visitor busy for days, with Castello di Rivoli adding contemporary art.

Turin is the place to go out. The evening begins with aperitivo, moves on to the wine bars of the Quadrilatero Romano or the crowded pavements of San Salvario, and in summer reaches the Murazzi on the Po, with clubs in old industrial buildings for later. Baden-Baden goes to bed early: a dressed-up evening at the Kurhaus casino or a hotel bar is the whole of it, and anyone wanting more takes the train to Karlsruhe.

Baden-Baden has the forest right on its doorstep. You can walk from town onto the Panoramaweg, ride the Merkur funicular or climb at the Battert cliffs without a car, and the Black Forest High Road leads to the Mummelsee and the Hornisgrinde moorland. It is gentle wooded upland.

Turin has bigger country, though you need transport to get there. The Alps of the Susa valley, the ibex and high trails of Gran Paradiso and the ski slopes of the Via Lattea are about an hour away, so serious hiking, climbing and skiing are all possible. Closer in, the city has the Superga hill and the Mandria park.

Both make excellent bases. From Baden-Baden you cross into France for Strasbourg, Colmar and the Alsace wine villages, or take the train to Heidelberg and Freiburg, with Speyer and Maulbronn among the UNESCO outings.

Turin has a little more variety within reach. The Langhe hills around Alba and Barolo are a wine and truffle trip in themselves, Milan is a fast train ride away, and the Sacra di San Michele, Aosta and Genoa extend the choice into mountains and coast.

Turin is somewhat easier with children. Its flat, arcaded grid suits pushchairs, the glass lift through the Mole, the car museum and the Egyptian mummies go down well, and the Superga rack railway is a small outing in itself. Baden-Baden is safe and calm, with the funicular and forest paths, but the Friedrichsbad turns away young children and the mood is adult. Each depends on a day out for the big family draw: Europa-Park from Baden-Baden, a zoo park outside Turin.

Both centres are walkable, and Turin's is a touch easier. Its grid is flat and arcaded from Porta Nuova to the river, and a metro line and trams cover the rest. Baden-Baden's baths, Kurhaus and museums sit close together, but some streets climb steeply and the station is out in Oos, a bus ride away. In both places a car really earns its keep only for the hills, whether that means the Black Forest and Alsace or the Langhe and the Alps.

Turin offers far more choice. Via Roma's arcades hold the big labels, Via Garibaldi the mainstream shops, and the chocolate makers, truffle delicatessens, antique dealers and Balon flea market give it real character. Baden-Baden's Sophienstraße and Lange Straße are polished, with jewellers, watchmakers and boutiques for a well-off spa crowd, but a walk along them covers almost everything, apart from cuckoo clocks and local wine.

Turin is clearly the cheaper stay. Hotels are fairly priced for most of the year, a generous aperitivo can stand in for dinner, and trattorie and market food stretch a budget well. Baden-Baden was built for the wealthy and still prices itself that way, with grand hotels and a charge at every visit to the baths. Its guesthouses and wine taverns help, but a spa-centred trip soon adds up.

Baden-Baden is remarkable for its size. The Festspielhaus brings leading international orchestras and opera, the Kurhaus has its own philharmonic, and the legacy of Brahms and Clara Schumann gives a concert here real atmosphere. Beyond classical music, though, there is little.

Turin has the broader programme all year. Opera and ballet play at the Teatro Regio, the RAI orchestra has its own auditorium, and there are concerts at the Lingotto, jazz clubs and music festivals, which suit a visitor who wants more than one kind of evening.

Here Baden-Baden is in a different league. Roman-era springs feed the silent, unclothed sequence of the Friedrichsbad and the pools and saunas of Caracalla, and the grand hotels and the Lichtentaler Allee keep the whole stay unhurried.

Turin can be restful, with long café breaks and walks along the Po and in Valentino park, but its spas are hotel facilities. Real thermal water means close to two hours' travel to Acqui Terme or the Aosta valley.